The first 90 days (and why you’re allowed not to know things)

Kristen: We have another session today, inspired by a Powrsuiter who’s come to us and given us a scenario, and we thought a lot of people can probably relate. So just to set the scene — she started a new role, she was super excited about it, she put her hand up for it before the job started, she was stoked. Out of her comfort zone, a bit of a stretch, definitely a step up. So she’s very excited, and then she starts the job and is absolutely paralysed. And I tried to go back to her, Nat, with, “This is how everyone feels,” and normalise it, first of all. And then her biggest fear was not wanting to ask questions and look stupid. So I’m like, amazing podcast episode, number one. Number two, amazing mini-masterclass opportunity here. Would you agree?

Nat: I look like I’m crying, but it’s just because I was coughing — just in case we’re putting this video up, need to get the important stuff out of the way. There’s a couple of things I think you mentioned earlier that I think is useful context as well. It is a step up, so she’s operating at a level where her peers are people who used to be her managers, or the level above, which often can trigger that sense of, “Oh my gosh, everyone else knows what they’re doing, they all know I’m a newbie, they all know I have no idea what I’m doing, am I just gonna be really irritating if I ask the obvious questions?” I feel like that is a real trigger for feeling these feelings.

Kristen: Yes.

Nat: And the other — oh, what was the other thing I was thinking when you were discussing this, because Kristen shared it with me earlier in our planning session for this. Okay, well — just think for a minute, because what you’ve described to me is actually classic imposter phenomenon, by the way. We prefer to use phenomenon over syndrome — we don’t have an illness, but it is an affliction of the successful. So you get a step up, or some success comes your way, you feel stretched out of your comfort zone, and you immediately go, “I’m the one who doesn’t belong here, I am the imposter.” So it’s a natural phenomenon of successful people who step up. I just wanted to say she’s effectively the case study, and I suspect many can relate.

Kristen: Absolutely. Yeah, and especially when it’s up into those more senior levels, because I think we grow up in our careers with this idea that everyone else just sort of was born and landed there, and we don’t realise everyone else has had to go through the same path. Like, consciously we know that’s the truth, but subconsciously you see someone who’s quite senior and you just kind of can’t imagine them also being uncomfortable being a first-timer, all of that sort of stuff. So I think this is a really good one to discuss, and I also love that it’s sparked a mini-masterclass our members will get, because that first ninety days — we get so many questions about that all the time, a new organisation, stepping up, different roles, all of that sort of stuff. So I think that’s gonna be really great to deep-dive into and give our Powrsuit members a literal plan — we’ll create a cheat sheet and a checklist of what to do, to get yourself properly set up and feeling comfortable in that really wobbly time.

Nat: Did you think of your second point while I was yammering on?

Kristen: No, the only thing I was thinking of — I think we discussed this this morning too — is how we relate asking questions and not knowing with stupidity, and we are so quick to assume that not knowing something makes us dumb, or that everyone else will think that we’re dumb. And that really stood out to me from that story, because — well, I don’t know if we’ve all been there, but I’ve been there, where you sort of feel like, “Is this just really obvious to everyone else, and am I gonna be, not even necessarily seen as dumb, but irritating?” That they’re gonna have to explain, what is it called, “suck eggs” to me — which honestly is a dumb saying, because I don’t know how to suck eggs. Do you know how to suck eggs? I hope you’re gonna do some research the next time I talk about where that came from, please.

Nat: I will do it right now. But what I’ll do is share where this concept of — actually, no, I’m not gonna attribute ninety days to this guy, but this guy, Michael Watkins, wrote a book called “The First 90 Days,” and it’s a bit of a go-to for this, effectively. But what I love, a learning that’s come out of this book, is that senior leaders are judging new starters on learning agility. So during those ninety days, you’re almost given a hall pass — I feel like, oh, we’re throwing around words now, we need to figure out where that came from.

Kristen: Isn’t a hall pass — isn’t a hall pass what you got when you needed to go to the bathroom, and you got the hall pass, like a literal — in America you get a literal pass?

Nat: Yes, no, it’s given — so how am I — I’m using — I’m just trying to think of why I used it in that context.

Kristen: Given, because you’ve got the pass to be able to go and do something that other people aren’t allowed to do.

Nat: Yeah, you’ve got freedom to get up and move around and go tend to your needs. But whatever — I think it’s like you have ninety days where people are expecting you to not know everything, and in a way you’re being judged on your learning ability, your learning agility — your ability to pick things up quickly, not necessarily to come in with a plan. And so this is about — and he uses these words — do you diagnose before you prescribe? The first ninety days are very much about diagnosis. You’re collecting information, you’re curious, you’re asking the right questions — those are the few things we wanna talk about today, ways to do that. And in fact, he says that leaders distrust newcomers who arrive with the answers before understanding the context of their new environment. So I thought that was interesting.

I realise I am very guilty of a particular style of conversation that jumps in all directions, so I know there’ll be a bunch of listeners going, “Can we please not get distracted by sucking eggs?” But I’m gonna very quickly cover that off before continuing. The idiom usually is, “Don’t teach your grandmother to suck eggs,” meaning you shouldn’t try to instruct someone on a subject they’re already an expert in. The phrase comes from the 1700s, when people without teeth would poke a pinhole in a raw egg and suck the contents for protein — which, as we also discussed this morning, is probably not your best source of high protein, they’d probably need to be sucking like ten or fifteen eggs a day. All those grandmas. Gosh, that’s all random. Okay.

Kristen: I really liked your point about diagnosing before you prescribe, because I think — you know how sometimes we judge ourselves differently than we judge other people? And I would suspect this Powrsuiter firstly has never judged anyone new for asking questions, but secondly may have judged the opposite — and I absolutely have judged the opposite. People who arrive new into a role or organisation and think they know everything already, and run forth and try to make all sorts of changes, or do things their own way, or undo stuff, or come up with ideas and go, “Why aren’t you doing it?” And you’re like, “Whoa, whoa, get some context beforehand.” Actually learn about us and understand what you’re doing before you start going ahead like a bulldozer. So I like that — diagnose before you prescribe — because actually the expectation in that first ninety days is to find the diagnosis. What are the things I can find with my fresh eyes that other people might have missed? What’s the context I’m missing? Who are all the people I need to know? All of that sort of stuff. If you don’t know that, you’re actually gonna really annoy people by running in and thinking you know everything.

I listed a few dos and don’ts — very quickly, the dos were: listen first, we’re gonna talk about that; build a map of stakeholders; find the quick wins; diagnose — there’s that word again. The don’ts are: arrive with the answer, copy your old role’s playbook, hide — which is like being paralysed with fear — or wait to be told what to do. So I think we can all relate to one of those don’ts, by the way, and it’s totally normal and relatable to feel that way. However, I think we’re gonna chat very high level about a few things today, and then use this episode to craft our mini-masterclass. So if you’d write to us at [email protected], reach out to Nat or I on socials, and please share your wins, your disasters of starting a new role, any quick tips or advice you’d love to share, we’d love to incorporate those.

But I think the one thing I’d love to call out is: you are freshest, in terms of critically looking at the way people do things and asking why and challenging status quo, as a new starter. So while the mistake would be to come in and bulldoze your changes and ideas, I think it’s really important that you chart those hypotheses somewhere and revisit them after a set amount of time, because I’d hate for people to learn the context and then immediately almost become a chameleon — like, “I don’t wanna stand out, I don’t wanna rock the boat, so I’m actually not gonna propose any of my thoughts.” I just think it’s important for people to hold them, but then equally learn about the context and the appropriate time to say, “Hey, I’ve learned this,” and then propose.

Nat: I completely agree there, and very good timing — we’re doing our newsletter this week, which is, what is podcasting time, last week — about curiosity. And it is interesting how easily we can say that getting context means not rocking the boat, and I totally see how that comes out. But actually what it is, is going, “I’m just really curious about what’s happening, and I’m not coming in with any assumptions like ‘my old company did it right.’ I’m coming in genuinely open-minded about why this is happening or not happening, and why we do it this way.” And all those things you spot where you go, “Ooh, why is this happening?” — ask and find out, dig into whatever it is. It’s not about not doing anything eventually, or even in the shortest term — it’s actually just about getting that information and starting to make more informed decisions.

I also mentioned to you before, when you first raised this, that I was speaking to another Powrsuiter this weekend who was quite experienced in more executive environments, pretty comfortable navigating her way through there. And she, not knowing at all about this podcast, said, “Oh yeah, and when I did my listening tour,” and just continued on. And I thought, “Oh, it’s so interesting, that’s such a different reframe” — this Powrsuiter who came to you was talking about, “I’m worried about asking questions and being sort of a nuisance, or being seen as not knowing what to do, and breaking all the confidence these amazing people have in me.” And this other Powrsuiter was like, “No, my job is to start by going around all the people I need to talk to and just listening, getting their perspectives, understanding how they see things.” Two framings of effectively the exact same situation, and the more experienced, more executive Powrsuiter really owned that as the job, was really nonchalant about it, like, “Of course that’s what you do as soon as you arrive at an organisation.” So I thought that would be a nice way into some of what we’re gonna talk about next — you can reframe this. I think that’s always the first step with mindset: instead of thinking, “Oh my gosh, asking questions and not knowing stuff makes me feel dumb,” it’s actually, “The job is to do a listening tour and really get curious and understand what’s happening that I don’t know yet — and I have no reason to know, because I’m brand new.”

Kristen: How long do you think a listening tour should last? I like it — I suppose it’s probably gonna last easily a full ninety days. You’ve got permission, that hall pass, to be really curious and ask what you might consider a dumb question — if you’ve been somewhere for twelve months, it’s easier to ask the question in the first three. But how long do you — what I’m trying to say is, I suspect the listening changes and evolves over three months, but would you say the listening tour is the full three months?

Nat: My understanding, and what I’ve seen work really well, is you sort of identify the people you need to work with, and you line up a coffee with each of them, or a quick conversation, or whatever — and it’s very much your first introduction. It’s understanding who they are, what role they do, what you go to them for, what they can go to you for, very surface level, so you understand where you sit. And then over the course of those ninety days, you’ll probably be building stronger relationships with some of them. So at first glance, or the first brush, it’s very broad — have a quick chat, get to know people, humanise yourself, humanise them. And then it’s about building those relationships over time, based on who you work with and how much you need to work with them.

I even remember — I’ve spoken about this a bit on the podcast — my girlfriend, when she went to a new organisation, said sometimes that was the hardest part about getting up and running, not knowing who to go to for what, and really having to figure out who those people were. Whereas a couple of quick questions, which she obviously did at the start, you can find out and start to build those relationships and get that context. So it’s like mapping stakeholders — figuring out all the key people to your job, so you can do your job, deliver whatever’s expected of you during that time, who you’re relying on. And I suspect stakeholders are at various levels — mapping them, getting really curious about each of them, and building a relationship at the same time. How they like to work, what do they expect, what do they need, what’s missing, what are the gaps, what do they like, how do they view the world — because what seems very obvious to senior leadership may not be obvious when you’re a couple of levels down. What feels like a good idea in one role may feel like a really dumb idea in another. So you’re starting to get that lay of the land, starting broadly with just building relationships and saying hi.

But you’re also — and this is what I’m writing this article about curiosity on — you’re paying attention and picking up on little cues and comments people make, to build a picture of how an organisation works. Because often, you know, when you’ve applied for a job and it’s a very glowing, beautiful job description, everything’s amazing, and then you get in and lift the hood, you’re like, “Wow, this organisation has all the same problems that other organisations do.” This is your way to find that stuff out, figure out the dynamics, how people make decisions, what’s working, what’s not, what should be brought in from where you’ve come from, all that sort of stuff. But it starts with just talking to people.

Kristen: Yeah, no, I love it. I was just reflecting back to when I used to start jobs — I’d start with a spiral notebook, and I would write all the questions I didn’t know the answers to throughout the day. I’d give myself that opportunity to write anything that came to mind down, in a very safe place to do it. And then with my one-on-ones, however often they were, throughout the week it was funny how a lot of stuff just got answered from me navigating the new environment and having conversations. So usually by the end of the week, or that fortnightly period when I finally got to chat with my manager, I’d refer back to it, and it was surprising how many of those questions had been crossed out. And then I felt really safe asking, “Hey, I haven’t been able to get to the bottom of these, can I just spend five minutes now, rapid fire?” That was how I rolled. So the surprising thing was, one, how many questions you might feel like, “Oh my gosh, I don’t know anything,” but it’s surprising how much you learn just by physically crossing that stuff out — and two, charting it so you can ask in a condensed one-on-one with a manager.

Nat: I’m like, that’s so okay, yeah, it is. The other thing that struck me from this particular Powrsuiter you spoke about this morning is I think she’d mentioned one of the questions is, “What should I be doing?” Like, what should I be doing in my role? And I think that can be really hard, because you do have a bit of culture shock regardless when you land in a new role, and it often is, “I know I’m getting paid to do this job, but I actually don’t understand the job yet.” I think this is a good way of understanding, without going strictly to a job description — this sort of questioning and curiosity and ticking off things in your spiral notebook is a great way of honing in on, “Oh, this is where I can start to jump in and maybe add value.” But again, no one expects you to get up and running straight away. That concept of “hitting the ground running” — what’s the word for it — it’s a pretty damaging philosophy, because if you hit the ground running you’re probably gonna run into all sorts of things people don’t want you to run into.

But I also wondered about — we’re fans of people being — no, what is it — capable of doing the job is critical. This person’s clearly put in the role because she’s capable of doing the job. And I was chatting with Adeline this morning — my daughter — who walked into a design store, had a great conversation, she’s doing a big project next term so she’s getting really curious and jumping into a lot of different stores, lighting stores and design stores and whatever. She jumped into a conversation with someone, and it turns out they need a part-time worker, so she’d, like, talked herself into a new job. And then she called me today — classic, she went back in to be like, “Hey” — which was great, I coached her, I was like, “You’ve got this, you can do it.” Anyway, she got out and was like, “But how do I add value? I don’t know the products, I don’t know anything.” And I just had to remind her, like classic cheerleader storyteller, I was like, “You can learn quickly, you’re passionate about this area, you can take instructions and do them very quickly, and you take initiative — if you see boxes that need to be broken down, blah, blah, blah.” So I’m like, “That is enough for a retail job at your age, paying that rate.” It is enough, and I feel the same way when you start a new role — you are adding value by learning, the experience you’ve brought is enough. I think we get paralysed by, “I’m not solving the world’s problems on day one.” And if you’ve hired the person who’s gonna perfect that job on day one, they’re outta there in six months because they’re bored.

Kristen: I like the Adeline example, because they’re not paying Adeline to know all their products inside out — they’re paying her to have the ability to learn those products and sell them over time. And that’s the distinction we sometimes miss — no one cares that you don’t know the thing you don’t know, because you’re not meant to know it, there’s no way you could know it.

Nat: Yeah, but what they do wanna have confidence in is your ability to learn it quickly and apply it. And we’ve talked a lot about initiative in the last couple of weeks — use the appropriate level of initiative, maybe you’re gonna break down those boxes and get them out, but you’re probably not gonna restock and rearrange the shelves on day one. So it’s learning and knowing the difference, because those two things might have much bigger consequences if you don’t know what you’re doing.

Kristen: Yeah, so I think that’s a really nice example of what we think we’re being hired for and what we’re really being hired for.

Nat: Yeah, and we overthink it — you don’t have to be perfect. We all have that panic moment where you’re like, “Am I really equipped to do this?” Imposter phenomenon, hello.

Kristen: Anyway — I do think I’d love to end on the idea of the right question, because I think there’s a question that can erode credibility when you’re kind of outsourcing thinking — and we’re gonna do another mini-masterclass on this about anticipating needs, and again that diagnosing, collecting information before prescribing. So this concept of the right questions to build credibility during this period — often it’s how you collect the information that shows, one, that you’ve done some chatting with other people, collected some information, maybe done some thinking, been really observant about things — so you’re able to come with a piece of information, and then say, “Is this how you see it?” or “Can you fill in the blanks for me?” I thought it might be helpful to chat about how you might ask a really great question, and there’s probably different ways of asking based on who you’re talking to — when we talk about stakeholders, there’s senior people, there’s your manager, there’s your peers. So I thought it might be interesting to lead with, how do you provide context, and then your hypothesis, but then invite them to fill in the gaps. Do you have any tips or thoughts on that?

Nat: I was just gonna say two principles to start — I was trying to jot them down so I don’t forget. One principle is: share what you know, or what you’ve figured out. Even in the “I don’t know what they want me to do” example I’ve totally been there — if you’re asking, “What do you want me to do?” it’s more, “Hey, I’ve been looking around and I’ve noticed these are the priorities, and I think this is the area, from our conversations earlier, that you want me to start in. I just wanna clarify, because I’m brand new — is that where you want me to be focused?” It’s the same question, but you’ve phrased it with, “I’m showing you I’ve thought about it, I’ve brought in some stuff, I’ve figured out an area I think I should operate in, and now I’m checking if that’s correct.” And that comes across so differently than, “What should I do?”

And then the second thing — especially when you step up, and depending on personality types — we can sometimes still act as if we’re not peers in that situation, still expect that sort of management or hand-holding you no longer get, or that they know more than you, or you have to treat them as further up the hierarchy. And I think making it clear when you’re asking questions that you’re comfortable sitting alongside them — even if you don’t feel fully comfortable, own that, “We are now peers, and I am going to ask questions as a peer,” not, “Please can you help me?” It’s positioning.

Kristen: Talk about that — the share-what-you-know, love it, always lead with what you’ve collected, providing the context, “This is what I’ve seen, this is what I’ve noticed,” maybe your hypothesis, “I’m thinking these two areas,” and then invite the question.

Nat: Tell me how you’d act like a peer — what would that look like, what are the cues I might slip up on? Because I think even that question, “What do you want me to do?” indicates they should be telling you what to do.

Kristen: I was hoping.

Nat: Yep. Yeah. Whereas actually — so there’s that, and then there’s also that sort of — I don’t, submissive isn’t the right word, but that approach of, “I’m gonna pay attention and action what people want,” or “I’m not gonna raise concerns.” I loved your spiral notebook example as a, “This is what I’ve been paying attention to, I’m interested to know,” rather than, “I’m gonna wait until someone tells me to pay attention to it,” or, “I’m stepping on toes by asking.” Because I think that mindset shift — that I am a peer — those two Powrsuiter stories really showcase that. One truly believes on day one she’s a peer, and she’s operating as a peer, going in and owning it. And the other, quite rightly new to this role, this step up, all the reasons why all of us struggle with it, isn’t feeling like she’s a peer, and so she’s second-guessing everything she does. So to me, that’s more of a mindset shift — if you’re telling yourself three times in front of the mirror before you go to work, “I’m operating at their level, I’m operating at their level, they are my peers.”

Kristen: Yeah, and even without thinking about specific questions, you do end up behaving and asking differently.

Nat: I love it. You gave some good examples at the start, and love that — I actually pointed her to one of our expert interviews on confidence and what it actually is, and how to build it. And even that mantra, I’m like, that’s totally it.

I thought, if I were new to a role, and/or in any of these people’s shoes, this is how I might expect and/or position questions to these different levels — I’m just gonna do one or two per group. If I’m a senior stakeholder, this is what I’d love to be asked: things like, six months from now, what would you expect success to look like in this role? It doesn’t matter — if I had someone coming from a totally different department asking me, as a senior person, “I’ve come in to do this, my primary responsibility is this, from your perspective, six months from now, what would success look like?” — that would be really interesting. “I’m picking this theme up across the organisation, is this as big a deal as it appears to be, is this really on fire, or what’s your perspective on that?” So, “These are the themes I’m seeing, I’d love to understand if you’re picking up on the same thing, and what would you view success as?” That’s not outsourcing your thinking, you’re asking them for stuff you can’t possibly know without talking to them.

Kristen: I love that — “six months from now.” And the last question — I think you jotted this down in our prep, but I loved it — is there anything the last person in this role did really well? Anything you’d like done differently? You’re really respecting and showing an ability and comfort working alongside people, but also respecting different ways of working, curiosity, all of those things — what a joy to have someone turn up at a role and ask that. It doesn’t mean you have to do exactly what they say, remember it’s context building, but it’s a nice way to go, “I really respect you and your work, I want to make this a great working relationship, I’m open-minded to adapt to your approach.” What a great entry — none of those things are things you could possibly know, you’re basically saying, “I want to learn your style, I want to learn how you communicate, I want to learn how you work.”

Nat: Wonderful. I think those are such nice questions to ask. On that last one, before we move to the last two levels — I think about the chair-to-CEO relationship, and I’ve witnessed a few chair and CEO relationships in my career, and it’s so interesting the thing that usually, when the CEO moves on for whatever reason — let’s not be like fire, but the CEO may leave for many reasons — the chair will have such an explicit, “This is what the next person in this role has to do and/or act like,” because of the learnings that they had. I’m like, what gold — why would you not ask your chair, “Is there anything the last person did that worked?” It could’ve been, like, motivated the people, brought them along the journey, amazing. “Anything you’d want done differently” — I can tell you, they will story-time, they will want to be heard, because they do not want that to happen again.

Kristen: And that can be said across all levels. I’m giggling madly, because isn’t that, I don’t know, in our twenties and thirties, how you’d find your next boyfriend or girlfriend? You were so — it was so easy to clock all the things that worked and didn’t work in your last relationship, and then you’d swing wildly in the other direction.

Nat: It’s so true, but I think that’s why it works — it’s almost like a blank cheque, you’re saying to someone, “How do you like to be interacted with?” and they’re like, “I don’t know.” But if you ask for something specific — like the literal last person you’ve just been interacting with, “What did you like and what did you not like?” — people are very clear on that, and it gives you intel into what they do and don’t like, without them having to go, “Gosh, do I like phone calls, do I hate it when someone—” all that stuff, that’s so hard, you get put on the spot and you’re like, “I don’t know.” But asking for something specific is good.

Kristen: So yes, we are very good at judging the last person in that role, whether it’s romantic or work.

Nat: I know, and people are willing to share, so you might as well ask. And I think, again, this is all levels — so moving to managers, the most critical questions for your managers during that period. When I think about it, the first one is, “Can we lock in a regular fifteen-to-thirty-minute session for the first couple of months while I find my feet?” That’s the first — get that underway, so you’ve got that time to bring your questions.

Kristen: Can I add to that one? Because I feel like there’s a level-above question, which is, “How would you like to keep in touch over the first couple of months?” Because some people might want a little summary at the end of the day, “What have I learned today, what are my questions.” Some people want to meet regularly, some people are like, “I can’t meet regularly.” So really going, “What works well for me being able to share information and find out stuff from you?” Even suggest, “We could do a daily digest, we could do a weekly meeting, we could do a fortnightly meeting with a weekly update, whatever it is. I could have a traffic-light system for urgent, or I’m worried, or I’ve run out of things to do.” And you’ll probably find they’re like, “Oh wow, that’s great that I have options.”

I think that works with my second one, which is getting really curious about how they expect you to deliver the work. So it could be, “When I share information with you about a decision, do you want to see the options? Do you want to see my thinking? Do you want me to lead with a recommendation with the backup?” Getting curious about how they can support you in your decision-making in the role — which also lends a bit to, “When I present options, do you want me to present them fully, so I’m picking up on anything I might be missing?” It’s just going, “How are we gonna collaborate, so I can learn, shortcut any learnings, but also present back to you where I wanna go?”

Nat: I love that. And we actually have a great mini-masterclass that you and I are running, coming up very soon, around problem-solving — but what we leave you with is a template to show your working, what you’ve discounted and what you haven’t, all the things you’ve thought through. It’s such a nice template, especially as you’re getting up and running in an organisation, to showcase, “I’m gonna tell you exactly what I think, my recommendation or my decision, but if you want a quick read over why, it’ll build so much trust and respect in your abilities,” when you can show, “This is why I got where I got.”

Kristen: I’m gonna end on peers, is that okay?

Nat: Yeah, go.

Kristen: Great. Peers — this is a huge one of mine that I do. Number one, I’m like, “Where are the landmines?” I’ll bring people for coffee, build rapport with them, and go, “Tell me where the landmines are. What’s currently blowing up or about to blow up, where are they, what do I need to know?” And I’d do that after building a bit of rapport. “How should we work together, where’s the tension?” Again, getting curious about how we should work together and help one another. And then, “What would make your life easier from my end, is there anything I can support you with?” That’s the peer thing — going in all different directions, being like, “How are we gonna work together, and what am I not seeing here?”

Nat: I love that. And then my only caveat to that one is: you coming into a role means change has happened, and humans are notoriously not great with change. So expect there may be some people who are unhappy about you getting the role, maybe people who applied for the role, who are going to bring some negative energy. And there are also people who maybe feel let down, all the sort of emotions that come into work, who will be very quick to dump on you all the things that are wrong. My advice when you’re getting up and running in that first ninety days is: be a positive influence, and really don’t buy into the backstabbing and the moaning and all that sort of stuff. Listen to it, obviously, because I think it’s really good intel, but don’t get caught up — you know how easy it is to get caught up in that, building relationships through being annoyed. I always think, be really careful when you’re first arriving, because change brings out — people sometimes want to jockey for position and get you on their side, and that’s not your job. Your job is to be really open-minded and learn and take all the perspectives and then come up with your own.

Kristen: Love it. If you need a ninety-day plan, everyone — all our lovely listeners who aren’t Powrsuit members — write to us at [email protected] and just say, “I need a ninety-day plan.” We’re gonna hook you up with an incredible starter on Powrsuit for a month, we’ll give you an amazing price to get up and running, and then you can access this learning, which we will roll out — now we’ve promised it, we’ve gotta roll it out in the next two months. So come along, shoot us an email, and we’ll get you hooked up.

Nat: I would just like to say, before we finish — I was thinking about, bless up, Norway, who are now out of the World Cup, and my current favourite football player, what’s his name, Haaland. This is a fair-weather fan here — did she know a Norwegian football team existed two weeks ago? No. Has she just lost about five dollars betting on Norway taking out the entire World Cup, and Haaland scoring the most goals?

Kristen: No comment.

Nat: One thing I’ve learned about him through my Instagram research is he has a unique style of playing football, in that he spends most of the game, in quotation marks, “being lazy” — he’s just observing, watching how everyone interacts and plays the game. And then towards the end of the game — although in this final game he was taken off, very controversial in my brain, knowing nothing about football — but at the end of the game, he’s learnt enough to be able to go, “I can spot that opportunity as soon as it lands.” And the reason I really like his style is he backs himself that once he’s done the looking around and picking up the context, he’ll be able to spot the opportunity. And I feel like that’s a metaphor for what we need to do in those first ninety days — back ourselves to go, “Even if I don’t have the answers now, and I don’t know everything now, I’m gonna back myself to watch, observe, learn, talk to people, build relationships,” and that answer will become a lot clearer really quickly if I just, as we say, trust the process. So everyone, be Haaland, be a Viking.

Kristen: Everyone be a Viking, I love it. Actually, Messi plays that way as well.

Nat: Yeah, I mean, all great sports people, you can imagine — they spend a lot of time analysing their competitors, and it’s a smart move.

Kristen: We love it, love it. Take care, everyone, and powrsuit.com — don’t forget to reach out, and we’ll get you hooked up. And we will catch you next time.

Nat: Bye.

Kristen: Bye.